Interview

Jeetendra Verma, Patna based social activist and writer in conversation with Phalhari Suryavanshi Das, head priest of the Mahavir temple, Patna.

On 30 June 1993, a Dalit priest, Phalhari Suryavanshi Das from Ayodhya, was appointed as the head priest of the Mahavir Temple, Patna, a major landmark in the city. Subsequently, the Bihar State Board of Religious Trusts (BSBRT), led by its administrator Acharya Kishore Kunal, appointed Janardan Manjhi, a Dalit, as chief priest of Ram Janaki Temple at Paliganj near Patna. Manjhi was the fourth Dalit to head a temple. Soon thereafter the 300-year-old Khaki Baba Ram Janaki Thakurbari at Hilsa in Nalanda district too came under the direct control of the Dalits with the help of BSBRT.

Far from seeing these developments in a positive light, many upper caste elements in Bihar and elsewhere decry such measures. Equally, there also Dalits who see these measures as attempts to co-opt the educated Dalits into the Brahminic fold. They feel that any compromise with the Brahminic tradition can only weaken the Dalit movement.

 

JV: How do you feel as the Head Priest of the Mahavir Temple?

PSD: I feel proud at being appointed the Head Priest.

 

JV: Do the so-called ‘savarna’ priests discriminate against you?

PSD: At the outset, there was some discrimination, but it was easily eliminated. Those who discriminated were made to leave. I had full support from Kunal ji (Acharya Kishore Kunal) in this.

 

JV: Does Hinduism validate inequality based on caste and untouchability?

PSD: No.

 

JV: But the Shankaracharya of Puri claims that untouchability is supported by Hinduism. What do you have to say on this?

PSD: I don’t think so. I didn’t know that the Shankaracharya has been giving such biased statements. I am fully capable of answering such alle-gations.

 

JV: By answering, you mean opposing?

PSD: Answering is opposing.

 

JV: How does one remove untouchability?

PSD: The feeling of untouchability will go only when we follow the path shown by Babasaheb Dr Bhimrao Ambedkar. And when we follow the thinking of Shiromani Bhagwan Ravidas Maharaj.

As long as the victims of untouchability remain uneducated and unorganized, untouchability will remain. The feudal parties don’t want untouchability removed.

 

JV: Even today, many temples do not allow Dalit entry. How do you react to this?

PSD: We have to struggle against such practices. Those who refuse entry should be boycotted unanimously. If the Dalits can carry the bricks and stones for construction and build temples, why can’t they enter those very temples?

 

JV: What kind of consciousness do you expect to build up among Dalits through religion?

PSD: In order to raise their consciousness I advo- cate greater education and organization. The dogmatists have reduced them to lowly jobs, from which I wish to liberate them. I want to campaign for a respectable life for our Dalit mothers and sisters. Whatever the opposition, I intend to continue with this campaign.

 

JV: Today the word ‘harijan’ has become contro-versial. How do you interpret this word?

PSD: In my sermons I have always said that the whole world is harijan. Everyone is Hari’s jan [people]. The word harijan should be used for the entire humanity, not just the scheduled castes. If the word is used only for Dalits, I will oppose it.

 

JV: A handful of people have begun to say that the Indian Constitution has become irrelevant and decrepit. How do you react to this?

PSD: [in anger] Those who dare to change the Constitution made by Babasaheb will have their arms wrenched out, those who cast an evil eye on it will have their eyes gouged out. This will cause a conflagration. This can’t happen as long as I am alive.

 

JV: Who do you think is the symbol of Dalit cons-ciousness?

PSD: Babasaheb Dr Ambedkar. He is the god of Dalits. It is because of Babasaheb that Dalits won the right to live, to educate themselves, and make their way forward in life. It is because of him that we have begun to get some respect. He sowed the seeds of revolution, which will grow into a large banyan tree some day.

 

JV: What do you feel about the religious conversion of Dr Ambedkar?

PSD: Babasaheb was humiliated by the Hindu bigots. That is why he did satyagraha for temple entry. He wanted to introduce reforms in Hinduism. But when the fanatics did not allow it, he changed his religion.

 

JV: What do you feel about the title [surname] Ram?

PSD: The title Ram has been invented by the fanatics. Some people have adopted it out of stupidity. What’s the point of being a Ram when even a dog does not drink water touched by you! It does not change anything. The situation can be changed by good deeds [not name alone]. Instead of the title Ram, you can use other titles such as Ambedkar, Buddha, Gautam, Ravidas etc.

 

JV: Do you feel that by appointing you the head priest, Dalits have received the respect expected by them?

PSD: Not at all. Just respecting me is not enough. It should happen everywhere. Respecting one person can only be for show. I have known so many deserving Dalit priests that even when the temples run out, there would be many Dalit priests left. I believe that priesthood should be casteless and based on one’s actions.